1
00:00:06,630 --> 00:00:03,350
okay here's our interview with rebecca

2
00:00:08,950 --> 00:00:06,640
kaufler let's start with putin and what

3
00:00:10,549 --> 00:00:08,960
his motivation is i know you're a

4
00:00:12,470 --> 00:00:10,559
genuine expert

5
00:00:14,310 --> 00:00:12,480
on that in fact i think i also saw your

6
00:00:16,870 --> 00:00:14,320
youtube video that you put out on like

7
00:00:18,790 --> 00:00:16,880
february 23rd where you pretty much laid

8
00:00:20,950 --> 00:00:18,800
out what was going to happen and it all

9
00:00:23,910 --> 00:00:20,960
it all happened pretty much as you laid

10
00:00:25,109 --> 00:00:23,920
out but i i kind of tick through what

11
00:00:26,630 --> 00:00:25,119
you hear

12
00:00:28,310 --> 00:00:26,640
out there as far as potential putin

13
00:00:31,109 --> 00:00:28,320
motives and i just want to identify a

14
00:00:32,630 --> 00:00:31,119
few of them and then have you comment on

15
00:00:33,430 --> 00:00:32,640
which it is so

16
00:00:36,150 --> 00:00:33,440
so

17
00:00:38,069 --> 00:00:36,160
one popular one is that he's facing a

18
00:00:41,510 --> 00:00:38,079
lot of internal

19
00:00:45,430 --> 00:00:41,520
um pressure and opposition and this war

20
00:00:48,389 --> 00:00:45,440
is a way of him allowing himself to stay

21
00:00:49,830 --> 00:00:48,399
in power number one number two you hear

22
00:00:52,150 --> 00:00:49,840
a lot about him

23
00:00:55,029 --> 00:00:52,160
having some grand vision for russia and

24
00:00:57,510 --> 00:00:55,039
returning it to the world prominence

25
00:00:59,270 --> 00:00:57,520
allah the soviet union or the russian

26
00:01:00,950 --> 00:00:59,280
empire so that would be a number two

27
00:01:02,310 --> 00:01:00,960
motivation which i consider to be

28
00:01:04,469 --> 00:01:02,320
totally separate from number one even

29
00:01:06,390 --> 00:01:04,479
though both could be driving him number

30
00:01:07,910 --> 00:01:06,400
three you've got the one that he puts

31
00:01:09,910 --> 00:01:07,920
out there that this is he needs to

32
00:01:12,469 --> 00:01:09,920
protect russia from

33
00:01:14,070 --> 00:01:12,479
from threats from the west especially

34
00:01:16,550 --> 00:01:14,080
from nato

35
00:01:18,870 --> 00:01:16,560
number four would simply be total

36
00:01:20,070 --> 00:01:18,880
self-interest of making more money for

37
00:01:22,390 --> 00:01:20,080
himself

38
00:01:24,870 --> 00:01:22,400
and then number five would be

39
00:01:26,870 --> 00:01:24,880
trying to improve russia's economy that

40
00:01:28,789 --> 00:01:26,880
somehow ukraine adds something valuable

41
00:01:30,630 --> 00:01:28,799
to russia and this is about improving

42
00:01:32,230 --> 00:01:30,640
its economy so those are the five i came

43
00:01:33,910 --> 00:01:32,240
up with you could take any one of those

44
00:01:35,670 --> 00:01:33,920
or i'm just curious where you come down

45
00:01:39,270 --> 00:01:35,680
on them

46
00:01:41,350 --> 00:01:39,280
sure you want me to start off yes

47
00:01:45,429 --> 00:01:41,360
okay so

48
00:01:47,510 --> 00:01:45,439
i'm gonna say uh number one uh is

49
00:01:51,270 --> 00:01:47,520
definitely a no

50
00:01:55,990 --> 00:01:51,280
uh and everything else is a yes and a

51
00:02:00,550 --> 00:01:56,000
combination of them why is it a no uh

52
00:02:01,429 --> 00:02:00,560
putin was uh elected four times

53
00:02:07,429 --> 00:02:01,439
uh

54
00:02:10,550 --> 00:02:07,439
interestingly since the beginning of

55
00:02:14,550 --> 00:02:10,560
russia's invasion on ukraine putin's

56
00:02:15,670 --> 00:02:14,560
popularity has skyrocketed to uh 83

57
00:02:17,190 --> 00:02:15,680
percent

58
00:02:19,990 --> 00:02:17,200
and by the way is that i'm hearing that

59
00:02:23,750 --> 00:02:20,000
number is that a poll we can trust

60
00:02:27,030 --> 00:02:23,760
uh excellent question uh jim

61
00:02:30,630 --> 00:02:27,040
yes so of all the polls that are out

62
00:02:32,949 --> 00:02:30,640
there uh this is the one we can trust

63
00:02:34,150 --> 00:02:32,959
with the caveat this is like the best

64
00:02:41,270 --> 00:02:34,160
that we have

65
00:02:44,710 --> 00:02:41,280
opinion yes i would um

66
00:02:48,390 --> 00:02:44,720
so the caveat is this obviously uh the

67
00:02:50,390 --> 00:02:48,400
russians are very

68
00:02:53,350 --> 00:02:50,400
concerned and

69
00:02:57,990 --> 00:02:53,360
paranoid for the lack of the better word

70
00:03:00,630 --> 00:02:58,000
due to the history of repressions and

71
00:03:03,190 --> 00:03:00,640
you know all kinds of things we just and

72
00:03:04,550 --> 00:03:03,200
i was born and raised in russia

73
00:03:08,390 --> 00:03:04,560
you might know

74
00:03:10,710 --> 00:03:08,400
and uh there's even such a phrase um

75
00:03:13,430 --> 00:03:10,720
that we had growing up and i'm sure they

76
00:03:16,390 --> 00:03:13,440
still have it they are it is not a phone

77
00:03:19,030 --> 00:03:16,400
conversation which means that if the

78
00:03:21,830 --> 00:03:19,040
topic is a little bit too sensitive

79
00:03:24,229 --> 00:03:21,840
that could be perceived by authorities

80
00:03:27,030 --> 00:03:24,239
as critical of the government then you

81
00:03:29,509 --> 00:03:27,040
can't talk about it on the phone so even

82
00:03:31,750 --> 00:03:29,519
with that caveat let's say it's not 83

83
00:03:34,070 --> 00:03:31,760
percent let's say it's

84
00:03:36,869 --> 00:03:34,080
60 percent it's still the kind of

85
00:03:38,550 --> 00:03:36,879
approval rating that any us leader could

86
00:03:39,509 --> 00:03:38,560
only dream of

87
00:03:41,509 --> 00:03:39,519
um

88
00:03:42,309 --> 00:03:41,519
and would you sorry would you anticipate

89
00:03:44,229 --> 00:03:42,319
that

90
00:03:46,229 --> 00:03:44,239
you'd get approximately the same number

91
00:03:47,270 --> 00:03:46,239
regarding this conflict in other words

92
00:03:48,630 --> 00:03:47,280
those that

93
00:03:51,750 --> 00:03:48,640
believe that this conflict is in

94
00:03:54,070 --> 00:03:51,760
russia's interest versus not

95
00:03:57,110 --> 00:03:54,080
okay another excellent question so the

96
00:03:57,990 --> 00:03:57,120
russians do not support

97
00:04:02,550 --> 00:03:58,000
uh

98
00:04:04,630 --> 00:04:02,560
war in general but they support putin so

99
00:04:07,350 --> 00:04:04,640
the difference between u.s culture

100
00:04:10,630 --> 00:04:07,360
american culture and russian culture is

101
00:04:12,949 --> 00:04:10,640
that they traditionally favor a very

102
00:04:15,990 --> 00:04:12,959
strong leader

103
00:04:19,349 --> 00:04:16,000
who can protect them from external

104
00:04:21,110 --> 00:04:19,359
threats because russia's history uh is

105
00:04:23,590 --> 00:04:21,120
just war-torn

106
00:04:26,230 --> 00:04:23,600
you know every single time that they had

107
00:04:28,550 --> 00:04:26,240
a weak leader it was associated with

108
00:04:32,070 --> 00:04:28,560
what the russians call the uh

109
00:04:35,430 --> 00:04:32,080
um instability and the time of troubles

110
00:04:38,950 --> 00:04:35,440
right um and so they prefer to elect

111
00:04:41,189 --> 00:04:38,960
somebody who borders on brutality uh

112
00:04:43,270 --> 00:04:41,199
rather than a weak person

113
00:04:46,230 --> 00:04:43,280
so interestingly

114
00:04:48,950 --> 00:04:46,240
joseph stalin's popularity who by the

115
00:04:52,710 --> 00:04:48,960
way murdered uh millions of the russian

116
00:04:54,950 --> 00:04:52,720
people is also on the increase so the

117
00:04:57,830 --> 00:04:54,960
long answer to your short question is

118
00:04:58,790 --> 00:04:57,840
that uh it's complicated

119
00:05:02,390 --> 00:04:58,800
um

120
00:05:04,629 --> 00:05:02,400
and plus if you add like the russian

121
00:05:07,430 --> 00:05:04,639
propaganda and the soviets and the

122
00:05:10,230 --> 00:05:07,440
russians are just simply the best at it

123
00:05:13,110 --> 00:05:10,240
and uh by the way the americans are

124
00:05:16,629 --> 00:05:13,120
getting pretty close as well um

125
00:05:20,310 --> 00:05:16,639
having learned from the soviet kgb

126
00:05:22,870 --> 00:05:20,320
so um it is

127
00:05:24,390 --> 00:05:22,880
yes they don't support the war they

128
00:05:26,790 --> 00:05:24,400
support putin

129
00:05:30,469 --> 00:05:26,800
but also a significant chunk of the

130
00:05:32,310 --> 00:05:30,479
population supports the war because the

131
00:05:34,950 --> 00:05:32,320
de-nazification

132
00:05:37,909 --> 00:05:34,960
and demilitarization the narrative that

133
00:05:41,350 --> 00:05:37,919
putin has constructed resonates with the

134
00:05:45,830 --> 00:05:41,360
russian people who lost 20 million

135
00:05:47,909 --> 00:05:45,840
uh of their own people to nazi germany

136
00:05:52,790 --> 00:05:47,919
so again it's pretty it's pretty

137
00:05:55,029 --> 00:05:52,800
complicated uh one data point that um i

138
00:05:56,790 --> 00:05:55,039
usually remind two people who lean

139
00:05:58,629 --> 00:05:56,800
towards regime change is that every

140
00:06:01,189 --> 00:05:58,639
single time putin was elected the

141
00:06:03,510 --> 00:06:01,199
runner-up was a communist somebody who

142
00:06:05,350 --> 00:06:03,520
would have been even worse than putin

143
00:06:07,110 --> 00:06:05,360
believe it or not it's the culture that

144
00:06:10,150 --> 00:06:07,120
produced ivan the terrible who killed

145
00:06:11,029 --> 00:06:10,160
his own son and joseph stalin

146
00:06:12,390 --> 00:06:11,039
and

147
00:06:14,950 --> 00:06:12,400
so these

148
00:06:18,830 --> 00:06:14,960
people in russia they who support the

149
00:06:20,390 --> 00:06:18,840
war they really have bought into this

150
00:06:23,270 --> 00:06:20,400
de-nossification

151
00:06:24,870 --> 00:06:23,280
narrative which just seems so absurd to

152
00:06:25,990 --> 00:06:24,880
us here

153
00:06:27,590 --> 00:06:26,000
um

154
00:06:29,749 --> 00:06:27,600
what do these people

155
00:06:31,749 --> 00:06:29,759
think they think that zolensky's a nazi

156
00:06:34,309 --> 00:06:31,759
or they think that ukraine is run by

157
00:06:35,749 --> 00:06:34,319
nazis or

158
00:06:37,749 --> 00:06:35,759
that's the majority of the population

159
00:06:40,710 --> 00:06:37,759
what what do they think

160
00:06:43,309 --> 00:06:40,720
so the majority of the population did

161
00:06:46,230 --> 00:06:43,319
not buy in into

162
00:06:48,950 --> 00:06:46,240
densification so let's separate food and

163
00:06:52,710 --> 00:06:48,960
support and support of the war which is

164
00:06:53,909 --> 00:06:52,720
two different things but still about 72

165
00:06:58,150 --> 00:06:53,919
percent

166
00:07:01,390 --> 00:06:58,160
do support the current special operation

167
00:07:05,589 --> 00:07:01,400
uh on ukraine so regarding the

168
00:07:08,150 --> 00:07:05,599
denotification about two percent only of

169
00:07:13,110 --> 00:07:08,160
the ukrainian population

170
00:07:15,350 --> 00:07:13,120
uh in the election in 2019 voted was

171
00:07:18,309 --> 00:07:15,360
pro-nazi right that was a pro-nazi

172
00:07:22,309 --> 00:07:18,319
movement two percent minuscule

173
00:07:26,550 --> 00:07:22,319
uh zelinski can't possibly be a fascist

174
00:07:29,749 --> 00:07:26,560
or nazi he's jewish uh four members of

175
00:07:32,309 --> 00:07:29,759
his own family uh his great-grandfather

176
00:07:34,950 --> 00:07:32,319
and three of uh the great grandfather's

177
00:07:39,189 --> 00:07:34,960
brothers uh were murdered in the

178
00:07:41,670 --> 00:07:39,199
holocaust so it's clearly a lie right

179
00:07:42,550 --> 00:07:41,680
but it resonates with the russians who

180
00:07:45,749 --> 00:07:42,560
now

181
00:07:49,510 --> 00:07:45,759
don't have much of the alternative

182
00:07:51,830 --> 00:07:49,520
information flows because putin is

183
00:07:54,710 --> 00:07:51,840
as the soviets uh were

184
00:07:56,070 --> 00:07:54,720
is very very strict in terms of

185
00:07:59,270 --> 00:07:56,080
controlling

186
00:08:03,830 --> 00:07:59,280
what other russian people allowed to

187
00:08:06,869 --> 00:08:03,840
know ironically we are in the same boat

188
00:08:09,110 --> 00:08:06,879
as a intelligence officer a former

189
00:08:13,029 --> 00:08:09,120
intelligence officer who does red force

190
00:08:16,710 --> 00:08:13,039
analysis for a living i was stunned to

191
00:08:20,150 --> 00:08:16,720
learn that we also banned uh information

192
00:08:23,430 --> 00:08:20,160
flows from russia i can't get my

193
00:08:27,029 --> 00:08:23,440
traditional sources you know russian tv

194
00:08:29,749 --> 00:08:27,039
channel 24 channel one and everything

195
00:08:32,630 --> 00:08:29,759
and i am highly trained and discerning

196
00:08:35,990 --> 00:08:32,640
propaganda i'm in no danger of falling

197
00:08:39,029 --> 00:08:36,000
you know um a victim to somehow putin's

198
00:08:41,350 --> 00:08:39,039
but we do exactly the same thing and so

199
00:08:43,470 --> 00:08:41,360
both sides lie right now putin lies

200
00:08:46,630 --> 00:08:43,480
about the justification of

201
00:08:49,670 --> 00:08:46,640
denutification demolarization the

202
00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:49,680
western narrative is also pretty much a

203
00:08:57,269 --> 00:08:53,440
lie that putin is waging this uh war

204
00:08:59,750 --> 00:08:57,279
because he's afraid of democracy ukraine

205
00:09:03,190 --> 00:08:59,760
is not in no danger becoming democracy

206
00:09:05,350 --> 00:09:03,200
anytime soon uh just like russia isn't

207
00:09:08,389 --> 00:09:05,360
it's at the very bottom of the

208
00:09:10,949 --> 00:09:08,399
corruption scale zelensky himself

209
00:09:13,670 --> 00:09:10,959
his presidential campaign was bankrolled

210
00:09:15,990 --> 00:09:13,680
by igor kolomoisky yeah let's hold let's

211
00:09:19,910 --> 00:09:16,000
hold on that person yeah let's hope this

212
00:09:21,750 --> 00:09:19,920
go yes let's do that so um to wrap up on

213
00:09:23,829 --> 00:09:21,760
though on the nazi thing so which since

214
00:09:25,590 --> 00:09:23,839
we did touch on that so yes you're

215
00:09:27,350 --> 00:09:25,600
saying it's an invented thing very

216
00:09:30,389 --> 00:09:27,360
common thing for putin to kind of put

217
00:09:32,230 --> 00:09:30,399
out some some red herring out there um

218
00:09:35,269 --> 00:09:32,240
misdirection

219
00:09:36,550 --> 00:09:35,279
but but there's people in the west

220
00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:36,560
that are kind of

221
00:09:41,430 --> 00:09:38,880
buying into this to some extent that

222
00:09:43,430 --> 00:09:41,440
there is a genuine nazi problem in

223
00:09:45,110 --> 00:09:43,440
ukraine so before we move past the the

224
00:09:47,269 --> 00:09:45,120
nazi narrative

225
00:09:49,269 --> 00:09:47,279
is there an element there that's

226
00:09:51,910 --> 00:09:49,279
significant enough that we should be

227
00:09:53,590 --> 00:09:51,920
concerned about it or

228
00:09:55,190 --> 00:09:53,600
so um

229
00:09:57,990 --> 00:09:55,200
i don't think i'm in a position to

230
00:10:01,190 --> 00:09:58,000
characterize it as significant i'll just

231
00:10:04,550 --> 00:10:01,200
tell you the facts uh so the azov

232
00:10:08,069 --> 00:10:04,560
battalion is a right-wing

233
00:10:09,190 --> 00:10:08,079
you know nazi fascist type of

234
00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:09,200
leaning

235
00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:10,240
um

236
00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:14,160
group if you will and arun brad bear on

237
00:10:18,389 --> 00:10:16,720
fox news when he was interviewing

238
00:10:19,430 --> 00:10:18,399
president zielinski

239
00:10:20,389 --> 00:10:19,440
um

240
00:10:22,150 --> 00:10:20,399
got

241
00:10:24,949 --> 00:10:22,160
an admission

242
00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:24,959
if you will from the ukrainian president

243
00:10:31,430 --> 00:10:27,600
that the azov battalion was incorporated

244
00:10:35,910 --> 00:10:31,440
into the ukrainian army so uh you can't

245
00:10:37,670 --> 00:10:35,920
really change the the the the nature of

246
00:10:41,190 --> 00:10:37,680
what just like the

247
00:10:42,550 --> 00:10:41,200
uh uh wagner group or wagner or wagner

248
00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:42,560
group or whatever

249
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:45,680
this is the putin's uh um hit squad

250
00:10:50,069 --> 00:10:48,480
right the assassins the azov battalion

251
00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:50,079
is very similar

252
00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:53,519
is it like a huge portion of ukrainian

253
00:11:00,550 --> 00:10:56,880
population and ukrainian military no is

254
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:00,560
putin amplifying to resonate you know

255
00:11:06,870 --> 00:11:03,600
the the the master of the disinformation

256
00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:06,880
uh that he is the former kgb operative

257
00:11:10,630 --> 00:11:08,959
yes thank you again to our guest rebecca

258
00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:10,640
coughler you can check out her book

259
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:12,720
putin's playbook russia's secret plan to

260
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:14,640
defeat america

261
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:17,440
wherever you get your books

262
00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:20,320
also check out zielinski the unlikely

263
00:11:25,269 --> 00:11:22,800
ukrainian hero who defied putin in

264
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:25,279
united the world it's a new book which

265
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:27,600
rebecca writes the forward to

266
00:11:32,069 --> 00:11:29,440
so we highly recommend you check that

267
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:32,079
out just came out recently on zielinski

268
00:11:36,069 --> 00:11:34,240
the unlikely ukrainian hero who defied

269
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:36,079
putin and united the world

270
00:11:38,949 --> 00:11:37,519
thank you to our producer michael parker

271
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:38,959
thank you all for listening we'll be

272
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:40,640
back soon with another episode of the

273
00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:47,750
[Music]

274
00:11:50,949 --> 00:11:49,200
thank you for listening to the truth

275
00:11:54,550 --> 00:11:50,959
show with jim breslow

276
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:54,560
you can find us at hiddentruthshow.com

277
00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:56,720
follow us on facebook twitter and

278
00:12:01,269 --> 00:11:59,519
instagram that hit the truth show

279
00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:01,279
join us again next week for another

280
00:12:08,630 --> 00:12:03,920
episode of hidden truth show with jim